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Old 11-21-2020, 09:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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And here I thought that we were going to have a post about rollback wreckers.

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Old 11-22-2020, 08:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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More Rollbacks?

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Old 11-22-2020, 10:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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This is an outdoor forum, so I confine myself to discussions that impact outdoorsmen. When I see something that impacts us as hunters and fishermen, I will post it up, positive or negative. Your perceptions that I am partisan are your own, I post based on issues. My asking about how people voted is an attempt to point out that things like Amendment E have little to no impact on us, but how one votes for President impacts us on a daily basis. It would be instructional to compile a list of actions taken by the current administration regarding public lands and the environment. Maybe some would change how they vote. Maybe not. Of course, many factors influence this, from 2A, abortion, immigration, tax policy, etc. But again, just looking at things from the point of view of an outdoorsmen, it's difficult to see how one can vote for another four years of this administration. I didn't say you support the latest round rollbacks from this administration, and if you didn't vote for Trump I'm not even talking to you. But if one voted for Trump last time or this time, it's impossible to say you don't support his anti-environment agenda. If I'm missing something here, I'm listening.

I look forward to Biden undoing much of what I see as damaging to our interests and will try to keep up with posting those things that benefit us. Hopefully we'll have good news soon, perhaps when I share it people won't accuse me of partisanship. I understand that posting up things that the Trump administration has done is hard for his supporters to hear, but there's no need to shoot the messenger. I'm just posting up facts, inconvenient truths, if you will. Facts and truth are not partisan.
Do not confuse policy in favor of outdoorsmen, hunting, and fishing with what is best for ecology as a whole. If it were managed in the spirit of ecology, humans would have absolutely no reason to have a presence in the wilds of America other than being a player or actor like all the other species involved and not for the mere pleasure of recreation.

You will never convince me that renewables today will have less an impact on the environment, as a whole, than the other forms of energy do today. The disconnect in the past is the irresponsible nature of energy, just like the irresponsible nature of other past best practices that have since been changed and updated. In order to keep up with today's demands of energy use, whether it be sun or wind, the footprint is enormous with very limited quantities of the elements required to sustain it. There's more at stake than a perceived understanding to "clean" air and water.

The sudden abandoning of proven forms of energy is irresponsible without phasing in a replacement that is both efficient and less obtrusive.

You post up what you claim to be "anti-environment" policy and the need for recompense, but there is far more at stake to whether or not you have a pleasant experience to a nature hike, because that is all you will have in the interest of ecology as a whole. You can forget about the need to fish and hunt, it isn't necessary if you prescribe to the agenda of the next administration you voted for supports.

Let's talk about economic policy and how that will affect 'The Great Outdoors'...
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Do not confuse policy in favor of outdoorsmen, hunting, and fishing with what is best for ecology as a whole. If it were managed in the spirit of ecology, humans would have absolutely no reason to have a presence in the wilds of America other than being a player or actor like all the other species involved and not for the mere pleasure of recreation.

You will never convince me that renewables today will have less an impact on the environment, as a whole, than the other forms of energy do today. The disconnect in the past is the irresponsible nature of energy, just like the irresponsible nature of other past best practices that have since been changed and updated. In order to keep up with today's demands of energy use, whether it be sun or wind, the footprint is enormous with very limited quantities of the elements required to sustain it. There's more at stake than a perceived understanding to "clean" air and water.

The sudden abandoning of proven forms of energy is irresponsible without phasing in a replacement that is both efficient and less obtrusive.

You post up what you claim to be "anti-environment" policy and the need for recompense, but there is far more at stake to whether or not you have a pleasant experience to a nature hike, because that is all you will have in the interest of ecology as a whole. You can forget about the need to fish and hunt, it isn't necessary if you prescribe to the agenda of the next administration you voted for supports.

Let's talk about economic policy and how that will affect 'The Great Outdoors'...
Your emphasis on "today" ignores the threats we face now and in the future. I have never advocated the "sudden" abandonment of oil and gas. I favor a science-based transition to less environmentally damaging forms of energy. This is a complex issue, no need to cloud it further by misrepresenting my positions.

As far as the economy goes, the Dow just now topped 30,000, which demonstrates the optimism with which the transition is being received. I'm relieved by the change and optimistic about the future. Our country and the world dodged a bullet.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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As far as the economy goes, the Dow just now topped 30,000, which demonstrates the optimism with which the transition is being received. I'm relieved by the change and optimistic about the future. Our country and the world dodged a bullet.
The Dow ended at 19,804.72 the day before Trump took office. I remember the news outlets predicting major drops. Today, its over 30,000... Trump Presidency grew the economy more than any other president in history.

Now we're going back to the administration whos principles got us Trump in the first place? The pathological Lier in Chief? How many degrees did he graduate with again? LMAO... Americans are so dumb... or "played" maybe the better word.

Trump did and said alot of stupid stuff for sure, but he did a heck of alot of great stuff (prison reform for minorities, moving Israel Embassy)... he even deported less than HALF of the minorities than Obama did... dropped way less bombs than Obama on other countries. Operation "Warp Speed" is getting us the Corona Vaccine faster than anyone thought possible. All the while news "experts" kept contradicting Trump (and themselves) with mixed messaging (Facci... don't wear masks, wear masks! Covid isnt airborne, covid is airborne!)

I hope things are always improving in the US for the citizens... time will tell I guess how the Harris Presidency turns out.

-DallanC
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Your emphasis on "today" ignores the threats we face now and in the future.
To bring this back to hunting and fishing...this is the EXACT notion you rejected in voting against Amendment E, just so we are clear. Consistency has never been your strong suit, though. Other than your consistency of not caring what happens to other hunters and fishermen as long as it doesn't negatively impact you.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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To bring this back to hunting and fishing...this is the EXACT notion you rejected in voting against Amendment E, just so we are clear. Consistency has never been your strong suit, though. Other than your consistency of not caring what happens to other hunters and fishermen as long as it doesn't negatively impact you.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...". Emerson. You have demonstrated consistently that your mind is small indeed.

There's a difference between transitioning to renewables and Amendment E. Anthropogenic climate is real, threats to our right to hunt are imaginary, a straw man, if you will. You're familiar with straw man arguments, right, V?
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Old 11-26-2020, 05:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It appears to me someone lacks an understanding between the difference in a strawman and a red herring.

Not to mention the problems in taking a quote out if it's full context. Emerson's quote isn't easily used a weapon in this case without cutting the one who wields it even deeper. The consistency he's discussing in Self-Reliance is an unforgiving issue to most humans. Not to mention it isn't kind to those who try to billy club people solely on how the individual assumes the other is being inconsistent, for example claiming a POTUS vote reveals a primal form of judgement on a hunter's values. I dare say the self-reliance essay is best used as a form of personal accountability and introspection. Transcendentalism is pretty fickle that way.

Damnable hobgoblins and each of our affinities for them, to paraphrase Lincoln.

Last edited by backcountry; 11-26-2020 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 11-26-2020, 07:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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What was the original topic on this
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Old 11-26-2020, 07:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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What was the original topic on this
Umm . . . I believe it was who we each voted for??
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