2020 General Election Amendment E - Page 5 - Utah Wildlife Network

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Old 10-14-2020, 10:04 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Time for me to sign off this conversation. I don't have a ton of energy or desire to understand that historical proposal. But more accurately Paddler chose to derail a topic with plenty of opportunity for discrete analysis and instead seems dead set on making it about the general election. The POTUS literally has zero input on the original topic no matter how much Paddler wants to deflect to the administration and broader issues.

As a moderate, unaffiliated voter I'm starting to better understand how politics has gotten so rotten. I have to be vulnerable to my own role in it over time. I think we all do. But if we don't start to deescalate national politics and allow local politics to be viewed under their own, unique realities than I can't see this getting any better. I've been very vocal against individual politicians choices/behaviors but the moment citizens force people into a corner and try to make choices artificially binary the more of this negative and hyper partisanship we are going to see. We are at a critical junction where we can choose to judge fellow citizens solely on a single vote or we can disagree on policy while respecting how we are more than the sum of political ideas we share.

I've chosen the latter. I hope more people do as well. We are so much more than our political differences and we often have more in common than we realize.

Take care folks. Best of luck no matter how you vote.
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:22 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I've chosen the latter. I hope more people do as well. We are so much more than our political differences and we often have more in common than we realize.

Take care folks. Best of luck no matter how you vote.
The "team sports" politics, as I've referred to it before, is absolutely exhausting. Paddler can even turn an issue that EVERYONE on this forum should support into a partisan soapbox for himself. Again, not shocked from the person, but it's still exhausting. I don't care who you voted for in the 1976 presidential election. You simply did what you were told by your "coach" anyway. There is no bravery in that.

Tell me why we shouldn't want hunting and fishing recognized as a right under our state constitution. That is what we are discussing here. And I think I've pointed out why someone like Paddler would not want it that way, because he has a history of trying to take these exact opportunities away from people.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:27 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Politics and political discourse have become so vitriolic and partisan that it is hard to not want to totally distance myself from it.

Iíve seen people put their ďteamĒ before faith, science, family, friendships, and basic human decency.

We should let the issues and their importance to us as hunters and fishermen dictate our positions on individual issues. Not what X or Y party says. Contrary to some of the assertions made here, not all X party says or pushes for is beneficial in the long run to our cherished pastimes. Nor is everything that Y party pushes irreparably damaging.

Nuance matters.

Iím pretty solid on where I stand with these issues, and know how that informs my vote. However, it gives me serious pause when I see some asserting that only a wholesale buy-in with left-leaning policies will save our hunting and fishing. Myopic views that ignore the fact that though the threats are different, they are still threats are not helpful.

It would be much more effective to acknowledge threats and weigh them against the competing threats from the opposite end of the spectrum.

This amendment is at worst an added layer of protection for hunting and fishing in Utah as management tools in perpetuity. Maybe itís unnecessary now, but Iím ok with it. I havenít seen anyone here saying this is the only thing we need to do and our hunting and fishing will be incredible forever.

We still need to be diligent in the public lands and waters fight. Speak up against policies and proposals that would further limit opportunity or degrade habitat. We should each vote with these things in mind.


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Old 10-14-2020, 11:33 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Kwalk3 -- BINGO!

Very well stated.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:20 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I have no problem with the amendment except as I stated above. I believe it's superfluous, however.

I guess V won't ever answer the questions I posed above. HDE either. Typical, juke and jive, deflect, deny, distract. Cool. I think I can guess the answers anyway.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:05 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I've been talking with friends and I'm less certain this will pass than I was a week ago. Lots of speculation about ulterior motives. I try to point people back to the actual legal language but they claim it doesn't pass the smell test. Specifically, the "preferred" language is making parts of my extended community squirm even though I explain to them "preferred" isn't the same in legalese as "must".

Hopefully my little sample isn't representative of the state. I would like to think we can get back to trusting legislation and the administrative state but so much damage has been done as far as citizens trusting public institutions. I really have learned a lot living in Utah and believe codifying tradition into law can help deescalate tensions but that could be overly optimistic. Our constitution can be an affirmation of unique state preferences not just a reaction to potential threats.

I'm hoping to build a life here for the long term and would love to know my daughter can have a protected right to hunt for decades to come. We'll know the answer soon enough.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:30 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddler View Post
I have no problem with the amendment except as I stated above. I believe it's superfluous, however.

I guess V won't ever answer the questions I posed above. HDE either. Typical, juke and jive, deflect, deny, distract. Cool. I think I can guess the answers anyway.
My post on your derailing the thread and turning this topic into a crusade was calling a spade a spade.

Really not interested in what you had to say beyond that and, quite frankly, have no idea what questions you asked. Nor will I...
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Old 10-18-2020, 04:47 PM   #48 (permalink)
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original subject please, enough my dads tougher than your dad.
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Old 10-18-2020, 07:33 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Anybody have a good feel for the chances of this passing? Looked at the legislative votes and it was pretty solid.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:57 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I have a very small sample size to go off, but two of my left leaning non-hunting friends mocked it and said theyíd vote against it.

One said that he was going to start a petition to get going to movies as a right in the constitution next year. Tough to educate someone with that perspective, but we had a good chat and he said ďIf your ability to hunt is ever challenged I will defend it.Ē

He didnít understand that once that challenge is there, itís too late to defend at that point.
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