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Old 11-23-2020, 06:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
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PBH,

You had me laughing half the day. Walked right into that one.
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Old 11-24-2020, 03:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Catherder wins the prize. Only bird I've flushed was while fishing today. Smart rooster flushed towards the highway.

Whoever was responsible for the restoration at Kingston Canyon should be proud. It's a great stream and has some fairly diverse habitat when you add in the WIA.
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:10 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backcountry View Post

Whoever was responsible for the restoration at Kingston Canyon should be proud. It's a great stream and has some fairly diverse habitat when you add in the WIA.

Minivan would be livid to hear someone say that...


That was one of the best purchases the DWR ever made. And, yes, the restoration was done very well. Well done Stan. Keep it up Nick.


Backcountry -- I'll start a new thread. It will give you some history.
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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As someone who lays bare plenty of criticism it seems only fair to highlight a quality project. I know how much work (physical and paper) it takes to pull off something like that. For many managers that can be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I hadn't been back in far too long. Saw elk moving through last night. Pushed ducks yesterday. Rooster today. Caught a couple beautiful trout.

Some of the bank work has shifted since my last visit but that seems like a certainty. Was fun recalling stretches that my friend and I fished years ago together. Granted my technique has suffered since then.

Last edited by backcountry; 11-24-2020 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Catherder wins the prize. Only bird I've flushed was while fishing today. Smart rooster flushed towards the highway.

Whoever was responsible for the restoration at Kingston Canyon should be proud. It's a great stream and has some fairly diverse habitat when you add in the WIA.

Did you try any bait?
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:58 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Invasive roosters or urban sprawl? Imo, we talk about the first too much and the second not near enough.

As to prairie chickens, sage grouse, etc, i don't see pheasants as the main or even remotely a secondary issue. It's overall loss of habitat and agricultural practices that are pushing native birds to the brink. Sure, we could put more cultivated ground back to its native state, but the results are a mixed bag at best with fragmentation unless you can lump large blocks together...which is becoming increasingly difficult as time goes on and larger tracts get subdivided to multiple heirs with differing views / priorities.
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:45 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Invasive means that the released pheasants would take over
Like carp in Utah lake
Or phragmites anywhere the ground is moist

IF ONLY we had to deal with invasive pheasants. My dogs would love me.
For those that hate on the releases or pheasant hunting in Utah in general don’t hunt them -seriously- more for me! But don’t complain & b***h and ruin it for those that still appreciate the opportunity to chase birds with their beloved dogs. Go spend your money on your elk or deer or sage grouse, etc. It’s your money not mine. But don’t ruin what I and thousands of others hunt in this great state. just because you don’t like it or have to work harder to bag a bird than you did 30 years ago. If you want more birds tell your wife she’s just fine in the house you live in, kill any skunk/ coon you see and donate to your favorite local conservation org.

Rant over
Happy thanksgiving!
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Old 11-26-2020, 03:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Invasive doesn't mean they have to take over. While there isn't a uniform definition, the underlying elements common to most definitions are non-native and deleterious in some fashion. I think they qualify in places like Quichapa as I've explained elsewhere.

And I won't stop criticisms. I don't think it's my job to shut up because others enjoy them. I'm not even actively writing the board to do away with the silly program down here. But releasing a pen raised bird into increasingly fragmented and deteriorating habitat in which native species already struggle is problematic from my standpoint. And I think there aren't many science based arguments for conservation that justify the choice down in this particular location.

Mileage may vary elsewhere, especially up north in which I've already said the context is different. Heck, even Kingston Canyon offers a different context as it involves some previous agricultural land (sections of WIA) that is intentionally managed different than the BLM at Quichapa.

I'm also curious how youth hunt structure are justified from an ethical standpoint. One participant down here a few years back said they actually put them in bags and spun them before being released literally in front of the kids. If that's true, that is abhorrent. Youth should be role modeled the same ethics and standards as adults though I understand the desire for early season access. Spinning a pen raised bird to make it easier to shoot is just plain unethical even if we want to recruit youth.

I think it's actually my duty to criticize such programs and behaviors as an ethical hunter. I don't expect everyone to agree but if we can't stand tall and say our programs are both ethical and well justified from the conservation claims we often make then I think we are actually more vulnerable, not stronger. And what I've seen down at this location I firmly believe makes our sport more vulnerable to the anti-hunting crowd.

Last edited by backcountry; 11-26-2020 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 11-26-2020, 04:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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MWScott72,

I agree it's hard to have a meaningful conversation without including the impact of fragmentation. I can't speak to up north but around Cedar sprawl is getting epic. Old ranch land is being subdivided faster than I can type out this post. For us that's more likely to affect ungulate winter range but we also have some small game that will be impacted.

Will be interesting to see how the slow and steady redirection of water for Quichapa impacts waterfowl. When I first moved here the diversity of waterfowl on that transient lake was pretty phenomenal. Heck, we had whitefaced ibis on campus one year there was so much water. The drought really reduced the diversity of birds that use it as a spot on the seasonal flyover. I think the water project makes that slow degradation all but certain. I benefit from the aquifer recharge program as a homeowner but it has consequences for wildlife. The demand for water as sprawl happens is really going to impact this transition range.

Last edited by backcountry; 11-26-2020 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 11-26-2020, 05:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Backcountry I’m surprised with this thread you’re still read after everyone muted you from your COVID opinions too.
Too bad no one wrote you in for President. Now we got sleepy joe.
With your opinions on the virus we will have ample birds to hunt
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