unlimited any bull tags? - Page 13 - Utah Wildlife Network

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Old 11-19-2020, 12:14 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
My prediction would be 25,000-30,000 any bull tags sold the first year if it goes unlimited.

If having 70%-100% more hunters on the landscape doesn't bother you then we are miles apart in what constitutes an enjoyable hunting experience.

Make the entire any bull rifle hunt into a HAMS hunt and I might agree with unlimited.
I agree with your prediction.
It's not that I like the idea of having that many hunters in the field but I would rather have that than go into a draw I think. Like I said I think it'll be a lot more tags not necessarily a lot more hunters.
Maybe they could limit to like 1000 multiseason tags into a draw and leave the other stuff OTC? Moving to HAMS like you said would be awesome but that would make lots of people angry. I don't know. It's a really tough subject, seems like no matter what someone will be mad.
I don't like the idea of limiting tags to a draw but I also don't like the idea of having a ton more people in the field.
Maybe they should just leave it as is and deal with people losing their **** if they don't get a tag. I'm fine with that.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:01 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Niller-->do you really think the DWR is that scheming and machiavellian smart to propose this unlimited nonsense just to get support for the hunt going to a draw? I'm a fan of a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but I just don't see them thinking past their next new work truck let along this!
Keep in mind that the DWR is not necessarily the ones that have to be the scheming, machiavellian smart people to think up of how to get from point A to Z in all this. And yes, I think there are people that are absolutely scheming to screw over many, many people in an attempt to get exactly what they want. Just look at what happened on the Boulder with the Barney Top in this very proposal that all anyone wants to talk about is the unlimited elk tags.

Want another thought? Okay, the unlimited elk tags idea was proposed at this same time SPECIFICALLY to get people talking about it and not the fact that they've eliminated rifle hunting entirely on a a portion of one the premium elk units in the world. Not to mention this is exactly what a specific "conservation" organization asked for a couple years ago so we could grow and then sell more 400+ inch bulls to hunt.

Yes, I absolutely think people are scheming on this one. In fact, I have very little doubt there is a whole lot of scheming involved on this one.
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Old 11-19-2020, 08:09 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Getting rid of the multi season tags would help a ton. The division said about 3,000 archers converted to the multi season tags when they were made available.

I'd prefer it go back to the "pick your season", as that would reduce demand for some tags.

Also, why not split out the muzzy and rifle tags into their own pools vs having them all come out of the same pot?
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:44 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Getting rid of the multi season tags would help a ton. The division said about 3,000 archers converted to the multi season tags when they were made available.

I'd prefer it go back to the "pick your season", as that would reduce demand for some tags.

Also, why not split out the muzzy and rifle tags into their own pools vs having them all come out of the same pot?
So how many of those archers were successful on those multi season tags? Another 3000 people spread over all the units is a drop in the bucket.

And I'm not sure how picking your season reduces the demand for some tags.

All the tags come out of the same pot. X amount of tags equals X amount of elk killed. Archery has been shown to be a non issue. Muzzy and rifle are killing X amount of elk. Prove that muzzy and rifle have different success rates and then you can lobby for separate tags.

In the end it it is about how much harvest can be sustained and how people view the experience. Most arguments I have seen so far are hunter based, not herd based.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:49 PM   #125 (permalink)
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My comment about the 3000 archers is that the demand for the tags would be decreased if the multi season tags were not available. No comments on success or effect in the herds.

That being said, success rates are already super low, mainly due to lower elk densities. 10% is what was shared by the DWR. Add in more pressure and the success rates probably get lower (on average) and people like the hunt less.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:45 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Words fail me. Unlimited any bull tags? Suuure, lets overpressure everything, and push elk to be on the endangered list, Why the hell not?! Some dip**** at DWR obviously had a visit from the good idea fairy. F'ing retards.
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:08 AM   #127 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
Niller-->do you really think the DWR is that scheming and machiavellian smart to propose this unlimited nonsense just to get support for the hunt going to a draw? I'm a fan of a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but I just don't see them thinking past their next new work truck let along this! [IMG class=inlineimg]https://utahwildlife.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Keep in mind that the DWR is not necessarily the ones that have to be the scheming, machiavellian smart people to think up of how to get from point A to Z in all this. And yes, I think there are people that are absolutely scheming to screw over many, many people in an attempt to get exactly what they want. Just look at what happened on the Boulder with the Barney Top in this very proposal that all anyone wants to talk about is the unlimited elk tags.

Want another thought? Okay, the unlimited elk tags idea was proposed at this same time SPECIFICALLY to get people talking about it and not the fact that they've eliminated rifle hunting entirely on a a portion of one the premium elk units in the world. Not to mention this is exactly what a specific "conservation" organization asked for a couple years ago so we could grow and then sell more 400+ inch bulls to hunt.

Yes, I absolutely think people are scheming on this one. In fact, I have very little doubt there is a whole lot of scheming involved on this one.
That entire setup seems like a special interest wet dream come true. I know a few current and former DWR biologist who are are all upstanding workers but there is undoubtedly wiggle room for outside influence to have long term schemes pan out. While I normally fall back on a variant of Hanlons Razor when it comes to errors in government management there is a clear exception when monied interests get involved.

I've been so busy with home life that I lost track of this issue. I need to downloaded some documents to read on my trip.
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:29 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Iím not worried about the DWR biologists. I think most, if not almost all truly are motivated simply by what is best for the resource. But they arenít the ones making the policy. When it comes to the Wildlife Board, I donít have the same trust.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:47 PM   #129 (permalink)
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you would thing that with all the information at there finger tips. the division would know that it just doesn't work when you try and make a limited entry unit and move it back to a general season unit. they deny it but i really do believe that cry saying its to provide opportunity also has a monetary (creed) purpose hiding in the backround. in almost all units i have witnessed this happen they wind up closing the unit due to over harvest. i wished that the whole proposal would be shelved till the currant elk managment plan expires. that is going to be 2 years and than do a proper study to currant issues. this whole plan seems it was done without a well thought out objective other man we do this and we will make a ton of money to play with. again just one ole timers thoughts.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:36 PM   #130 (permalink)
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in almost all units i have witnessed this happen they wind up closing the unit due to over harvest.
Care to be specific? I'm not sure I can recall where a LE unit went to GS any bull but then had to be shut down.

But I can think of a some areas that were GS any bull that were shut down for a bit and then reopened as LE.
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