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Old 07-25-2020, 04:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Point and tags

my thoughts are , What if you could only draw out for one tag per year but you could put in for points on all you want? just thinking this might give you an opportunity to hunt every year but a different animal with a lower point total needed. now think if you want bull elk and there are 20000 elk tags that means 20000 people who spend their points if they want to hunt bull elk. no double dipping you are done for that year win or lose in the draw. everything straight up points total no random (lucky mike getting a tag with 1 point) now that is 20000 hunters that cannot apply for deer, or anything else only point. if you dont draw you still get a point. someone who knows more about the draw can im sure point out the flaws in this but putting your love of hunting aside for everyone growing up and coming into the system we need to start thinking outside the box.
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Old 07-25-2020, 05:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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So basically what you want, is to extremely limit opportunities for people to go hunting, while giving everyone the option to build points for everything in the mean time, adding to the point creep butt plug 100x more than what we already currently have? Besides cutting people’s hunting time every year to just 2 weekends, what else did you do? Nothing beneficial, that’s for sure.

I’ve said it a million times. 1) I’m not worried about youth hunting opportunities. There’s PLENTY of youth opportunities for them currently. If you aren’t hunting EVERY weekend from August to January, that’s your fault as a parent. Not the states, not the sportsmen with multiple tags, it’s the parents. Get your kids out there on your own. Don’t ask others to sacrifice their hunting and opportunities, when in the end, you don’t take advantage of what’s currently out there. 2) WE DONT NEED MORE HUNTERS IN THE WESTERN US. We have plenty. Most the new ones these days I’m almost certain are in it for the wrong reasons. Hunting for social media flex and cuz it’s ‘cool’ isn’t the right reasons. Don’t push everyone and their dog to be involved in hunting. Let parents and mentors decide who the right kids are to recruit. If you can’t handle the fact that not everyone is a winner in drawing a tag every year, then I promise trying to kill an animal probably isn’t for you. 3) Utah has currently many opportunities. Trying to limit the opportunities a person can have every year so everyone can ‘be a winner’ is what’s gotten us into this mess country wide that we are in right now. NOT EVERYONE CAN BE A WINNER. Quit trying to turn this state into California where everything is ‘fair’. Life isn’t fair. Not drawing tags every year isn’t fair. GET OVER IT and go take advantage of the opportunity that is still out there for every licensed hunter in the state.

It’s mind blowing how many hunters are advocating for more restrictions and less opportunities, for not only everyone else but for themselves! We should be taking a hard stance on keeping what we have! But instead guys are folding faster than a cheap lawn chair. And over what? Not drawing a **** cow tag this year? Not getting an any bull tag when they were on sale for 8.5 hours and passing up a spike tag at the same time? Geez. Talk about an entitled attitude. Grow up and go take advantage of what we do have available to everyone! Tons of waterfowl, upland and other OTC opportunities for all. Pick up a bow and go chase cows and spikes. Or quit applying for harder to get tags. There’s still tons of permits that can be drawn with 0-1 points every year. If you’re only goal is to go hunting more, then you should have zero problem with going for these tags instead of the higher success or trophy tags most guys put in for. Ironically, those same guys are usually the ones crying about never drawing and there not being enough opportunities.
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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calm down, i am not trying anything i just want my kids to hunt EVERY year and if it would help for people to only hunt one species so a younger hunter could get more involved i would do it. i just think the guy that buys an elk tag drew out for deer and antlerless elk and deer in Utah and then hunts in two more states will waist a lot of meat because no one can eat that much in a year if we are limited there will be more opportunity in the end and it will mean more.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
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calm down, i am not trying anything i just want my kids to hunt EVERY year and if it would help for people to only hunt one species so a younger hunter could get more involved i would do it. i just think the guy that buys an elk tag drew out for deer and antlerless elk and deer in Utah and then hunts in two more states will waist a lot of meat because no one can eat that much in a year if we are limited there will be more opportunity in the end and it will mean more.
YOUR KIDS CAN HUNT EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. OTC youth archery deer tags for every unit. OTC spike and any bull tags. Unlimited archery spike/cow/any bull tags. Youth waterfowl hunts. Youth upland hunts. Youth elk hunts. OTC spring youth turkey/general hunts. OTC HO bear and lion hunts. OTC fall turkey tags. OTC control Antlerless tags. 20% general deer permits and antlerless allocation to all youth. Geezus what TF else do you want? The **** animals tied to a tree for you? I’ll bet you aren’t taking advantage of hardly any, if any of those options at all. If you were, you wouldn’t have any room to complain about youth opportunities. Thousands of hunters in Utah didn’t have any youth opportunities growing up. The ones that did, had maybe the 3 season youth deer tag advantage and the youth duck hunt. That’s it. Me included. The state has gone out of their way to create youth opportunities. And apparently that’s not good enough.

They have the mentor program for kids! How many tags have YOU mentored to them??

And get out of here with your wasted meat argument. If that’s one of your base points to change the system, it’s bullchit. No one here with a reasonable outlook on the big picture will buy into it. My family shot 19 big game animals in 2017, just in Utah. Not a single ounce of meat went to waste. It was consumed by my family or donated to friends and neighbors who wanted it. If people are wasting meat, the amount of tags they have in their pockets isn’t the big issue. They’d waste 1 animal as much as they do 7. Either way that’s a separate issue. And if they are wasting animals, then that goes back to my hunting for wrong reasons statement.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossloader View Post
calm down, i am not trying anything i just want my kids to hunt EVERY year and if it would help for people to only hunt one species so a younger hunter could get more involved i would do it. i just think the guy that buys an elk tag drew out for deer and antlerless elk and deer in Utah and then hunts in two more states will waist a lot of meat because no one can eat that much in a year if we are limited there will be more opportunity in the end and it will mean more.
For me it is about the hunt and not the meat. I might kill a deer every 4 or 5 years. I shot one in 2015 and then another one in 2019 but there have been a lot of years that I go home with nothing but memories. I am lucky in that I have a lifetime license and can hunt deer in Utah every year but I limit myself to what I kill.

But also as was mentioned above, get your kids interested in archery hunting. They will love it if they enjoy the outdoors and hunting.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I appreciate where your coming from and I realize we will have to make some concessions eventually but that’s too extreme for me right now.

I know the elk tag situation freaked a bunch of people out, myself included but let’s not go walking the plank just yet.

And the “I just want my kids to be able to hunt every year in the future” is laughable to me right now. Not that it can’t be taken away at some point but holy jeezuz, any father with a bit of awareness can smother their kids with tags these days.

For the 3rd year in a row since my daughter turned 12 I’m looking at her tags and thinking to myself “So many tags, so little time” 🤔
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My son as a youth: Killed 4 elk, 4 pronghorn, 5 deer. And he did it with rifles, muzzleloaders and a bow.

Thats more total than I had killed by my early 30's. He also killed one buck pronghorn thats bigger than my biggest buck to-date.

-DallanC
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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My son as a youth: Killed 4 elk, 4 pronghorn, 5 deer. And he did it with rifles, muzzleloaders and a bow.

Thats more total than I had killed by my early 30's. He also killed one buck pronghorn thats bigger than my biggest buck to-date.

-DallanC
Out of curiosity, what year did he turn 18?
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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And the “I just want my kids to be able to hunt every year in the future” is laughable to me right now. Not that it can’t be taken away at some point but holy jeezuz, any father with a bit of awareness can smother their kids with tags these days.

For the 3rd year in a row since my daughter turned 12 I’m looking at her tags and thinking to myself “So many tags, so little time” 🤔
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallanC View Post
My son as a youth: Killed 4 elk, 4 pronghorn, 5 deer. And he did it with rifles, muzzleloaders and a bow.

Thats more total than I had killed by my early 30's. He also killed one buck pronghorn thats bigger than my biggest buck to-date.

-DallanC
I hunt vicariously through my kids. My two daughters have taken more game and variety of game than I did before I hit 30. Between the two, they've taken 7 elk, 3 mule deer, 2 oryx, 1 antelope (one has a tag this year so maybe 2 in another 7 days), and 6 turkey. I have yet to shoot an antelope buck and have only had one buck tag that was OTC archery in NE.

There are designated youth only hunts in NM to where only kiddos apply and compete against each other, and then if they don't draw, there is a fire sale OTC cow elk for late Nov and late Dec. We don't turkey hunt much anymore and have never done spring or fall bear (which is OTC).

If I had put them in for every available youth hunt for every species, a tag or two would be drawn every year. There is just not enough time...
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The one problem that I see with giving the youth so many opportunities is that they are going to end up in the real hunting tag pools and come to the stark realities that life isn't fare, and that they are going to have to cross their fingers every time that they put in a application just like the rest of us.
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