Point and tags - Page 4 - Utah Wildlife Network

» Site Navigation
» Home
»
 > Search
 > FAQ
» Stats
Members: 13,819
Threads: 63,323
Posts: 679,661
Welcome to our newest member, Tomedtay
Like Tree50Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-01-2020, 06:52 PM   #31 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossloader View Post
Not seeing the point, if we don't do something now point creep go's up and success will go down and hunter satisfaction will drop and money will stop flowing because young hunters will NOT keep spending hundreds of dollars a year in Utah when they can go to other states some of us work for a living and cant take all the time away from work to hunt for 3 months some people can't afford gas to drive every weekend hours out of state and some people want there adult kids to have it as good as i did growing up hunting as we know it IS going away in UTAH it was proved with draw tage selling out and the area i hunt now takes 5 points to draw for muzzy deer when it used to be every other year open your eyes it is changing!!!

I work weekends and it is hard to take young kids out of school to go on hunts every week, you are being unreal in what you say Moosemeat, i did what I could for my kids when they were young now im working with grandkids and it has changed so much in just a few years dont lecture me on stuff being my fault if there not hunting if my grandkids finds an area THEY want to hunt and it takes 5 years to draw how is that my fault? maybe they dont want to hunt with 5000 other hunters, the hunts in Texas are not dirt cheap ream how much they charge for tips gutting storing and shipping been there done that. and it was my brother who in his family got 4 cow elk tags 4 buck deer tags and 2 doe antelope tags and 1 bull elk tag with just 4 people in the house I say great but if four people in your house drew that with just 4 bull elk points today i would call you the king and bow to you. that is what i'm talking about you ask if i have seen the amount of people applying for tags right now? well of course that is my whole point, hunters are increasing animals are NOT that state caps the amount buy having doe hunts and cow hunts they only want 18 bucks per hundred does they only want 65000 elk in the state when i was young we had 300.000 hunters in utah now we have 80.000 is all. think about it!
You are all over in your arguments (and punctuation), it’s hard to follow...

This year in my family I have a LE elk tag (3 points), 3 general deer tags, 3 OTC spike tags, 4 pronghorn tags, 4 swan tags, 12 turkey tags... I’m not sure what your point is?

You work weekends? How is that my fault? So you want to limit guys ability to have multiple tags every year, when they work week days, just so they can sit home on the weekends while your at work, so you can feel better about yourself? I don’t think so. I will lecture you when you cry and complain about the lack of opportunities out there for youth when in reality there is tons of it. Way more now than there ever has been. You’re not taking advantage of it and it’s everyone else’s fault there isn’t enough animals to go around for everyone, there chitloads of people applying for permits. Yes hunter numbers might be “down” from what they once were but the actual demand for those permits is at an all time high. Permits are already tough to get ahold of... and you want there to be more hunters? I don’t think you really know who to be mad at! Another thing is, back in the day, there was guys buying permits for their wives, grandmas and little kids, who never even hunted. There may have been 300k deer permits sold, that doesn’t mean there was actually that many hunters.

Look if your kids want to hunt a specific area that takes 5 points to draw, that’s their choice. But don’t jump on here and start bitching about how long it takes for them to draw a tag! You can’t get mad at your own choices that no one forced you to make. If you want to hunt every year and the experience is more important to you than the quality, there’s tons of units for that. If quality is what you’re after, you’re gonna have to wait your turn for a tag! But to jump on here and start screaming for limiting opportunities for guys while all in the same breath wanting to recruit more hunters... you might as well be mixing oil and water together.
MooseMeat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-02-2020, 09:21 AM   #32 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
MWScott72's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Holladay, Utah
Posts: 1,683
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Critter View Post
The one problem that I see with giving the youth so many opportunities is that they are going to end up in the real hunting tag pools and come to the stark realities that life isn't fare, and that they are going to have to cross their fingers every time that they put in a application just like the rest of us.
What's wrong with that Critter? Get them interested with quality opportunities when they're young. I'm all for it! No problems with them learning that "life isn't fair" later on when they become adults either. We all have to learn, but if they're really interested in hunting after having great experiences early, they'll stay and play later.

And going back to one of MooseMeat's original comments at the beginning of this thread, I completely disagree that we have too many hunters in the Western U.S. This is absolutely not the case...unless you want to advocate for reduced opportunities for hunters in the future! Think about it, we don't live in a vacuum...people move around and take their opinions and preferences with them. So, if we don't recruit more hunters, what do they do when they move around the country? Obviously, they don't hunt!!! How does that help perpetuate hunting??

This might sound harsh, but people who think there are too many hunters are selfish in their reasoning pure and simple. It's not about others...it's about them, and that is NOT a winning strategy moving forward! If anything, the hunting community needs to be more inclusive, and advocating for fewer hunters ANYWHERE is wrong headed in the extreme. There, off my soap box...
__________________
Just remember...it's hunting NOT killing. Big difference!
MWScott72 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2020, 09:47 AM   #33 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
MWScott72's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Holladay, Utah
Posts: 1,683
Default

Going back to the original OP proposal, I am completely against limiting tags to one animal per year with points for all others (if a hunter wants to apply for them). Limiting opportunity is not the way to get more people involved. If you or your kids aren't hunting every year, then that is a failure on YOU! There are plenty of opportunities out there. Big game is not the end all...and even if it were, you can still hunt deer and elk every year if you plan it right. What about waterfowl, turkeys, small/upland game. There TONS of opportunities out there - use them...or take up painting.

And another related point, while it is nice to reminisce about the past, we live in the present, and as such, we must learn how to take advantage of that. Yes, that means learning about the regs with all their quirks and peculiarities. It may even take years of planning to make sure the tags you want now are there in the future.
Hunting is much more complicated than 30 years ago, but we have a finite resource with more and more pressure put on it, so IMO, that requires more extensive planning and management in order to be successfull. It's easy to manage 100K animals when there are 1000 hunters. Quite a different story when those same 100K animals face competition from 25K hunters...and more predators, and more development, and less winter range, etc. You get my point. Our world today is very different from 30, 40, or 50 years ago. It may take additional time to learn ins and outside of regs and draw systems today - as opposed to the "just go hunting" of yesteryear - but again, if it's too much, there is always painting...
__________________
Just remember...it's hunting NOT killing. Big difference!

Last edited by MWScott72; 08-02-2020 at 09:51 AM.
MWScott72 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-02-2020, 09:53 AM   #34 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Critter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Where I Hang My Hat
Posts: 8,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWScott72 View Post
What's wrong with that Critter? Get them interested with quality opportunities when they're young. I'm all for it! No problems with them learning that "life isn't fair" later on when they become adults either. We all have to learn, but if they're really interested in hunting after having great experiences early, they'll stay and play later.

.
What I am seeing it isn't keeping them hunting to begin with.

I have a niece that has two boys, they both started hunting with the youth opportunities when they were eligible. They had deer and elk tags every year. Now that they are adults in their early 20's neither one of them hunts just because of the problems drawing tags and they don't want to hunt spike elk and don't want to put forth the effort to hunt the any bull units. You can't even talk them into putting in for sage grouse tags that you can usually draw about every other year.

There are those families that do manage to get their kids really interested in hunting and fishing but it is going by the wayside quite quickly.

I have seen it play out on other families as well. All is fine as long as they have a tag in their hand but as soon as they have to face reality they decided that they want to do something else.
bossloader likes this.
__________________
If you don't care where you are, you are not lost
Critter is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2020, 10:12 AM   #35 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
MWScott72's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Holladay, Utah
Posts: 1,683
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Critter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWScott72 View Post
What's wrong with that Critter? Get them interested with quality opportunities when they're young. I'm all for it! No problems with them learning that "life isn't fair" later on when they become adults either. We all have to learn, but if they're really interested in hunting after having great experiences early, they'll stay and play later.

.
There are those families that do manage to get their kids really interested in hunting and fishing but it is going by the wayside quite quickly.

I have seen it play out on other families as well. All is fine as long as they have a tag in their hand but as soon as they have to face reality they decided that they want to do something else.
I see your point Critter, and today is a different day when there are so many other things to distract kids from hunting. What is the alternative though? We can take away youth opportunities and let them learn the "life isn't fair" lesson right out of the gate, but I think we'd have even less retention when they become adults. Simple fact is many kids just don't like hunting because they have other options that we didn't when we were younger. All we can do is try to get them interested, and I think the best way to do that is give them some quality opportunities early on.

As an example, do you take a kid duck hunting for his first time in mid-December when it is 10 degrees and snowing or is it better to take them when it's warmer in the early season when there are more ducks around to be had in more favorable conditions? Now, if I had a little pothole of open water drawing in all the available birds in Dec, I might advocate for that, but things being what they are, that typically might not be a possibility! And, with the cold and adverse conditions, that youth hunter might be frozen solid and miserable before shooting light even starts.
bossloader likes this.
__________________
Just remember...it's hunting NOT killing. Big difference!
MWScott72 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2020, 11:21 AM   #36 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Critter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Where I Hang My Hat
Posts: 8,522
Default

I don't know if there is anyway that you can get a kid interested in hunting and keep him there.

For me my dad hunted and fished until I was 5, then due to work he never went hunting again. We were out of the state mostly during the summer months and he had to work so he never really fished again. He did however checked into fishing for me as I was growing up while he was at work and I got to fish in some amazing places, but again because of work he couldn't get out hunting.

Fast forward to when I was in Jr High. I lived with a sister who's husband lived to hunt, but he would go out after work or for a quick one on the opening weekend of the deer hunt, at that time while there was a elk hunt it wasn't much with only a few elk units.

But for me I wanted to go. It didn't matter if it was a -40 out duck hunting or 110 out hunting rabbits. If someone mentioned that I could go hunting I was like a kid the night before Christmas, I couldn't sleep. Then when I turned 16 and could actually get a deer tag I couldn't wait. You just don't see that kind of outdoor type drive in kids anymore, even ones that come from a hunting family. Then when they do get out they are more interested in that game on their cell phone than they are sitting and waiting for the animals to show up.
__________________
If you don't care where you are, you are not lost
Critter is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2020, 07:05 PM   #37 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
MWScott72's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Holladay, Utah
Posts: 1,683
Default

All true Critter. I was exactly the same growing up. If there was an opportunity to go hunting, I was all over it - regardless of weather or otherwise. I was lucky and have a dad that would take us kids over going with his friends who didn't want us tagging along. I'll always be thankful for that too.

The opening day before duck season was like Christmas to me, and I lived for it, and the rest of the season behind it. I would get so excited that i couldn't hardly sleep the night before! Those were the days, and it didn't matter if we shot 2 limits or 2 birds - I was right there for the next trip with visions of limits in hand. You're right in that you don't see that as much now, but we live in a totally different time. I was a high schooler back in the late 80s. Cell phones weren't around for another 10 years after I graduated.
__________________
Just remember...it's hunting NOT killing. Big difference!
MWScott72 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2020, 08:23 PM   #38 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Critter View Post
You just don't see that kind of outdoor type drive in kids anymore, even ones that come from a hunting family. Then when they do get out they are more interested in that game on their cell phone than they are sitting and waiting for the animals to show up.
That’s not true. I personally know several kids in the 10-17 range that are absolutely FIRED UP about hunting. It’s all they think and talk about. Heck my two year old lights up when he hears the words “hunting, turkeys, elk, deer...” every time we get in the truck he says “hunting? Turkey? Go?”. But he’s been on more successful hunts in his 2 years than most grown men have in their entire life. I couldn’t go enough as a kid. I was obsessed with it. I even got in trouble multiple times in grade school where we would be given some kinda art assignment and mine would always include some kinda hunting scene with a dead animal and guns in it. My mom loved getting those phone calls from concerned teachers about my art projects. I had video games, skateboards, dirtbikes, all kinds of distractions most kids have at those ages. I never really got into sports, but I definitely had the opportunity to do them. I did get heavy into competitive archery tournaments and excelled at it. In the end, the biggest reason I quit archery comps and didn’t try to make a career out of it, was it interfered with my hunting. Lots of big archery tourneys held on the weekends in the fall. I’d rather shoot animals than foam or paper, so I quit. The biggest factor in all of this, I was fortunate to have a dad who took the time to take me hunting every weekend he could. He sacrificed a lot of his prime hunting ages in his life, to take me on hunts that I could do and enjoy. Sure we had some limited success, but for the most part I held him back and I’m forever grateful that he understood that kid hunts were more important than his type of hunts. I feel like I’ve done what I can to repay the favor now that I’m taking him, finding him the places to go and all he basically has to do is sit there and be patient. But in the end, I’m forever in debt to the sacrifices he made for me.

It’s not hard to get kids hooked on it. What’s hard is making the effort to take them every time you go. If the kid only goes once a year, yeah he’s gonna find other things to occupy his time with, because he can’t go whenever he wants like an adult can. Again, it falls on the parent to look for your kid friendly hunts and take them on those. So what if a kid plays games on their phone while they sit and wait for animals to show up. I’m 30 and I play angry birds and watch movies all the time while I’m sitting in a treestand. 14 hour days in a stand is enough to drive anyone insane. Some days you wait 12-14 hours for something that only lasts 30 seconds. Gotta do something to keep them occupied. You can only stare at squirrels and chipmunks for so long. I promise you’d have way more youth absolutely addicted, if they had the ability to go more than once a year. That’s the biggest limiting factor in my opinion

Last edited by MooseMeat; 08-02-2020 at 08:37 PM.
MooseMeat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2020, 09:16 PM   #39 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3arabians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Clinton, UT
Posts: 2,180
Default

That’s some serious gospel moosemeat! I agree 100%
__________________
Sometimes if you don't have a beer you don't have anything.
3arabians is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2020, 11:00 PM   #40 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3arabians View Post
Thatís some serious gospel moosemeat! I agree 100%
MM TRUTH!!

Time, attitude, ethics, example required if you hope to pay if forward. It's sad adults miss the opportunity to mentor youth to love the outdoors and environment it provides for personal experiences; physical, mental, spiritual while hunting and fishing.
elkfromabove likes this.
OriginalOscar is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Smilies
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Utah Wildlife Network forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.