General Season Turkey Hunt

[mm73]

I apologize if this has already been discussed. I am not exactly on the bleeding edge of outdoor news so this may be old news to most on this forum, but I was just told yesterday that Utah will have its first ever statewide General Season Turkey Hunt, and over the counter tags went on sale yesterday! Wow! My first reaction was excitement, but now that the surprise of it has worn off I am asking myself - is this a good thing? I know Utah's turkey population has really taken off in the last decade or so, but are there really enough birds to sustain a general hunt? Is this just a trial for the DWR to see if they can handle a general hunt? I have never hunted wild turkey before (but I sure would love to) so I am really curious to hear what others think about this, especially those of you who are seasoned turkey hunters and have been putting in for them for years. Is there even a reason to put in for limited entry turkey tags anymore?

[Chaser]

I think the biggest reason for continuing the draw system is so there is a group of hunters out there that get a crack at the early season, before all the other hunters get after them. IMO, I don't think you will see a huge success rate during the general hunt. There will be more people chasing them, which means they'll be that much harder to find/harvest. I guess we'll see how it goes.

[elgobbler]

I think its a good thing overall, but I do think they should have left a few units limited entry all season long. Chaser makes a good point in that the birds during the general season will become smarter, and the success rate will decrease for the average turkey hunter. Overall quality for both limited entry and general season hunts will probably go down, cause birds will become educated and wary. Idaho has plenty of over the counter areas, but still left some areas that were controlled hunts all season long! I think they should do something like Idaho, so that there's not just a free for all(alot more chasing, rather than actual hunting) in all the main units! I guess there are a few CWMU's to apply for, but that's pretty limited compared to what Idaho has to offer in its controlled units. I think part of it has to do with $ and selling more tags! In my opinion we shouldn't sacrifice all quality for quantity. There's got to be a better balance?

[proutdoors]

Limited Entry for turkeys is, and should be, only to ensure there are toms available to breed the hens. Since 95-100% of the breeding happens in March/April, those are the only times limiting the harvest of toms is warranted. In May, hunters could kill 100% of the toms and not hurt the turkey populations at all. A male turkey live no more than 4 years in the wild, most never get to 4 even without humans hunting them.

As for the 'quality' of turkey hunting being hurt by 'too many' hunters in the field and having educated birds, isn't that why it's called HUNTING and not killing? I have had the late season tag the last two years, and the birds have been educated, making it a challenge, and get this...........A HUNT.

[mm73]

Limited Entry for turkeys is, and should be, only to ensure there are toms available to breed the hens. Since 95-100% of the breeding happens in March/April, those are the only times limiting the harvest of toms is warranted. In May, hunters could kill 100% of the toms and not hurt the turkey populations at all. A male turkey live no more than 4 years in the wild, most never get to 4 even without humans hunting them.

What if the following winter is a hard one and a large number of the male young of the year dont survive to breed the females the following spring? Wouldn't the population crash? I see your point though. As long as each flock has at least one male survive to breed the populations should be stable.

[proutdoors]

Yes, if all the toms were killed by hunters and then a harsh winter killed off a bunch of jakes the population would take a hit. But, the likelihood of all the toms being killed is minuscule. Turkeys in Utah is, IMHO, one of the greatest success stories in conservation history for the state. Taking an animal that 30 years ago were nowhere to be found, and now are able to handle OTC hunting, is remarkable. I helped release the first turkeys in Tooele County, now they are more plentiful than jack rabbits. As long as they keep the early breeding season limited, but slowly increase the tags for them from where they are now, the turkey population will continue to grow. I predict that within the next 5-7 years we will be like most other states and have fall turkey hunts and even multiple bird bag limits.

[mm73]

Turkeys in Utah is, IMHO, one of the greatest success stories in conservation history for the state. Taking an animal that 30 years ago were nowhere to be found, and now are able to handle OTC hunting, is remarkable.

I definitely agree with that! It is remarkable. I see them everywhere now. I have even seen them at 10,000 feet in the Uintas! I am excited to finally get a chance to hunt them this year. I have never hunted turkeys before though so I have a lot to learn.

[elgobbler]

Proutdoors,
If your theory is so bullet proof, then why does Colorado and Idaho (who have larger populations than we do) still maintain controlled units? I do agree that Utah has had some great success with the introduction of turkey's, but I find it hard to believe in areas (especially public land populations) that turkeys are running around like rabbits. I'd venture the guess that much of the source populations in Tooele county come from CWMU's, and or non-hunted populations. Turkey's are prolific reproducer's, but not ever year. Show me the science on specific population survival in Utah (beside counts and hunter harvest=basic)? Initially their were radio collared birds, but since they have been thrown birds around the state every year in hopes to increase number's, and i'm not against that(the more the merrier!), but until you can give exact survival statistics on a populaitons by population status, then I don't think your theory would hold up statewide (hence the importance of maintaining a few controlled units). I do think hunter effort may drop after a few years when some realize or think that hunting educated birds is to hard(which is the states thinking) , I just think the state hardly ever makes changes in management based on sound science (even if there biologist have put it i their face), its mostly political.

[proutdoors]

elgobbler, I am not overly familiar with Idaho and how they manage their turkeys, but Colorado issues OTC tags for most areas, even allowing two turkeys per permit in most cases as well as a fall OTC season.

As for most of the turkeys on Tooele County surviving on CWMU's, which CWMU? I don't believe there even is ONE in the entire county. Come on out anytime, and I will show you turkeys in droves on public land. The DWR, when the turkey permits were first issued, wanted success rates of 60+%, that is no longer the objective nor should it be. A hen will have 5-8 young survive per hatch, and since hens are not legal to kill for hunters, the population will continue to grow/stabilize as long as there are enough toms to breed them, which right now is more than the case. If hunters quit hunting turkeys because of 20-30% success rates, why do hunters still hunt general season deer/elk? The DWR wouldn't issue permits that would cause all the hard work done by the DWR and others to be undone, that makes no sense as a conspiracy theory.

[elgobbler]

Proutdoor,
all i'm mostly saying is that one size almost never fits all in managing any species (look at big game), and I think the current regulations are to broad! I'd venture the guess that survival nesting production varies from region to region (5-8 young/ id bet is high for some areas), and do we know by how much? No! I agree, there are many areas in the state with robust turkey populations, but they won't stay like that with a one size fits all management system. I didn't know that habitat quality and predator densities are the same everywhere, and don't vary from year to year. Why not maintain a few controlled units to ensure some type of stability? The other states have managed to maintain opportunity with a limited number of controlled units.
Anyway, I better quit wasting my time! Thanks for the comments!