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Old 02-10-2017, 01:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by #1DEER 1-I View Post
I don't think it matters where he had his meeting, they will find him.

Yeah, but if all the seats are filled with his right leaning constituents, (hopefully in camo or orange there to remind him about their opposition to TPL) then the liburl protesters would have to carry on outside and real discourse could take place.

Also, the Relief Society could provide hot chocolate and green jello to the cold protesters outside, hopefully quelling their anger a little bit.
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It is good to hear that public lands questions were discussed. Channel 2 just showed the chanting and shrieking, and only discussed the "Trump" issues.

I like your comments about the "other" recreation users. The reason I have a bit more optimism long term on the public lands battle is that opposition to the issue attracts users/enthusiasts from both sides of the aisle, so to speak. An effective coalition can be made to support public lands if both the granola types and the right leaning hunters can look past other differences and fight together.

One last thing. What the heck was Chaffetz thinking in having that meeting in Salt Lake? Why didn't he have it down here in Happy Valley in front of,uh, his real constituents? Besides, there probably aren't a 1000 liburls in his entire district to disrupt the meeting.
Simple answer. Gerrymandering. Republicans carved up the Democratic stronghold of Salt Lake City, dividing it between the four congressional districts to ensure every district has a majority of Republican voters. Look at the map. So, even though I live in Holladay, Chaffetz is supposed to represent me. Wish he would.
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I read a couple articles about the meeting and they quoted "Democrat Activists". Makes sense as to why there was so much disrespect shown through the course of the meeting. The level of disrespect and lack of civility expressed in the country today does absolutely nothing to solve the problems we face-- and that includes maintaining our public lands.
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I read a couple articles about the meeting and they quoted "Democrat Activists". Makes sense as to why there was so much disrespect shown through the course of the meeting. The level of disrespect and lack of civility expressed in the country today does absolutely nothing to solve the problems we face-- and that includes maintaining our public lands.
Chaffetz has shown complete arrogance and rudeness throughout his career. Anybody see his abusive behavior directed against Cecile Richards during the Planned Parenthood hearing? Got his ass handed to him, too, which was a beautiful sight.

He got precisely what he deserved last night, and there's a lot more where that came from. There were at least 3000 "Democratic Activists" there, and we're getting stronger. You guys need to wake up. You cannot change the Republican party in Utah from within. Their arrogance is incredible. If you stand for public lands, conservation, the rights of hunters and fishermen, the Republican party is your determined and avowed enemy.
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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He got precisely what he deserved last night, and there's a lot more where that came from. There were at least 3000 "Democratic Activists" there, and we're getting stronger. You guys need to wake up. You cannot change the Republican party in Utah from within. Their arrogance is incredible. If you stand for public lands, conservation, the rights of hunters and fishermen, the Republican party is your determined and avowed enemy.
It's getting harder and harder for me to comprehend how any outdoorsperson can vote republican. It's only the NRA's fear mongering that has so many people convinced that the (R) stands for rifle.
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Chaffetz has shown complete arrogance and rudeness throughout his career. Anybody see his abusive behavior directed against Cecile Richards during the Planned Parenthood hearing? Got his ass handed to him, too, which was a beautiful sight.

He got precisely what he deserved last night, and there's a lot more where that came from. There were at least 3000 "Democratic Activists" there, and we're getting stronger. You guys need to wake up. You cannot change the Republican party in Utah from within. Their arrogance is incredible. If you stand for public lands, conservation, the rights of hunters and fishermen, the Republican party is your determined and avowed enemy.
Yeah because Democrats are such angels. I would caution you against lumping all people together by association of a political party, it may come back to bite you in the ass
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:07 PM   #27 (permalink)
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ksl radio played audio from the 2009 tea party town halls and last nights chaffetz disruption. Virtually identical. The tea party shut down town halls of dems, just like people shut down chaffetz last night. and the dems in 2009 complained non stop about dialogue and debate being shutdown, just like republicans are complaining about the left shutting down dialogue. Two wrongs don't make a right but I thought it was pretty interesting, seeing how people think it's just one side or the other that does it.
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:14 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Utahgolf-- +1!

So much disrespect. Even on these forums the disrespect is prevalent with posts such as the one quoting me above.
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
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ksl radio played audio from the 2009 tea party town halls and last nights chaffetz disruption. Virtually identical. The tea party shut down town halls of dems, just like people shut down chaffetz last night. and the dems in 2009 complained non stop about dialogue and debate being shutdown, just like republicans are complaining about the left shutting down dialogue. Two wrongs don't make a right but I thought it was pretty interesting, seeing how people think it's just one side or the other that does it.
There's no room on the left or the right for honest and civil dialogue. Leaves me here in the middle hoping for a place to still be able to set up my tent.

Bad ideas and behaviors certainly aren't exclusive to one party or another.

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Old 02-10-2017, 02:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Read my post again, carefully. I did not say Republicans per se are all enemies. They clearly are not. But, our elected Republican representatives consistently act against our best interests. Our entire congressional delegation is against the Bears Ears, and virtually all things that promote clean air, clean water, conservation, etc. There was one bright spot, though. Brian Shiozawa was the only Republican who voted against the resolution in the Utah Senate that wants to reverse the designation. I happen to know Brian, he's intelligent and very thoughtful.

I truly believe that there are many Republicans in Utah who are avid outdoorsmen, and who are conservationists. But they remain affiliated with the Republican party, hoping against hope that they will be heard. I don't see that happening. They take your vote and stab you in the back. Just remember the definition of insanity, ie, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.
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Last edited by paddler; 02-10-2017 at 02:41 PM.
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