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Old 08-12-2014, 10:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Big game and pesticides

http://jongosch.com/save-our-elk-fro...des/#more-1393

Here is a picture of a Utah moose that I bumped off of a pesticide treated tree. http://rutalocura.com/images/IMG_6848.JPG Here is a close up of the treated leaves. http://rutalocura.com/images/IMG_6859.JPG Deer and moose preferentially feed on sprayed foliage, during particular phases of brown out. I have observed pronghorn, domestic sheep, and porcupines doing the same.

The moose in the picture has mildly deformed hooves.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow, several videos on youtube about the hoof rot issue, very sad to watch.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Not saying your assertions are totally baseless, but since the research is incomplete and this is from a different area with totally different chemical use practices, I'm skeptical. From a guy who deals with herbicide damaged plants every day of his life it doesn't look right. The photo's don't look like herbicide damage to me. I immediately see several worms on the leaves and there appears to be feeding damage. Many leaves are green and untouched directly behind other damaged leaves. The photo with the moose shows an irregular "browning" of foliage. If someone sprayed it they did a horrible, non-uniform spray job. Roadside applications typically only get the lower portion of the tree and it is a very obvious damage zone. This tree is not a noxious species so there's no real reason for this tree to have been sprayed with herbicide, maybe with insecticide. Many of the herbicides used do have salts which tend to attract animals including wildlife, however, many of these herbicides are pasture/rangeland approved and in 18 years I have yet to see any damage to domestic animals which are subject to herbicides and pesticides 100 fold more than any biggame species. Pesticide companies (manufacturers or applicators) wouldn't be in business very long if they routinely did damage to nontarget organisms. Looking through the "Recent Posts" to the right of the article it's not hard to see they have an anti-herbicide agenda.

The blame obviously lies squarely on global warming and/or G.W. Bush along with everything else and since the article is not well sourced it must be absolutely true . Seriously, I think we need to look a little deeper than this one article from the northwest. I don't think it's an issue here and I question it's severity in Oregon.
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I witnessed the tree get sprayed first hand by a state road crew. They spray lots of deer and moose favorites, like curl leaf mahogany and bitter brush. I have watched for months as deer, pronghorn, and moose have selectively fed miles and miles of sprayed road ways, and power line right of ways.

These animals do not die immediately, though I have witnessed very severe symptoms in deer that have consumed large quantities of sprayed foliage. The deer in the videos had consumed large quantities of recently sprayed plants. She abandoned a fawn in the process of wondering around in a stooper for days.

Most of these pesticides are documented endocrine disruptors, and affect the hormones of mammals, and other "non-target" species. The affects of hormone disruption include reduced reproductive capacity, and malformations: http://westernwildlifeecology.org/service/wildlife-malforamations/ These http://rutalocura.com/deer (there are two pages) malformations are endemic to the area where roads and power lines have been sprayed. As one surveys wildlife for these malformations, the most observable malformations decrease in areas of low or no spraying.

Of all the marked Western wildlife declines of the last 30 years, there are several commonalities. Some of these include low hepatic selenium, copper and other micro nutrients, and increasingly, the revelation of exposure to pesticides.

After 20+ years of Whiskey mountain bighorn sheep declining in the Wind rivers of Wyoming, it was demonstrated that nitrate deposition was driving selenium deficiencies, which in turn caused white muscle disease, low recruitment, and pneumonia outbreaks. Hepatic selenium deficiency is indicative of thyroid disruption as well. As are dental malocclusions and leucism which also presented in these sheep. The winter range that these sheep use has been sprayed numerous times over the last 20 years with herbicides.

Selenium is most active in the thyroid gland of mammals. After participating in the role of converting T4 into T3 in the thyroid, any left over T4 is sent to the liver for later use. Because of this, blood selenium content can appear within normal range, while liver (hepatic) levels are deficient. Animals, including humans with thyroid disruption, require higher levels of selenium, copper, zinc, magnesium, and cobalt, because hormone disruption depletes these minerals. Selenium, copper, and cobalt deficiencies are the hallmark of ALL big games declines in ALL of the Western United States. Anything that can further drive a deficiency in any of these things, can in conjunction with hormone disruption drive herds to the brink.

Some documented selenium deficiencies were initially thought to be magnesium deficiencies. Selenium and copper deficient animals have been shown to seek out these minerals respectively. I have recently observed deer, pronghorn, and moose that seek out magnesium as well. They will seek out magnesium over selenium and copper, while selecting for those as well. Some previously recognized deficiencies need to be looked at again, as the situation is probably more complex than previously recognized.

In 2010 large portions of Fremont and Natrona counties in Wyoming were sprayed with Dimilin. Dimilin is an insecticide that is a chitin inhibitor. Chitin is what makes up the exoskeleton of insects. They sprayed dimilin to kill grass hoppers. By spraying during the molting life cycle of the grass hopper, they can not grow a new exoskeleton and they die. The claimed that nothing else would be harmed, yet there were large die offs of birds and other insects including large numbers of bees. Chitin in the exoskeleton of all insects regulates the growth of the insect. So while Dimilin does not kill bees the same way as it kills grass hoppers, it is still kills them. Even though they are "non target" species, that the pesticide producers and applicators say are not effected. Guess what else happened across the entire area of Dimilin treatment? Mule deer declined sharply, and have exhibited antler malformations, hoof deformities, and dental malocclusions.

Some of the highest rates of cactus bucks caused by cryptorchidism that have been studied, occurred in places with documented pesticide exposure. High buck to doe ratios, and flat recruitment accompanied the testicular dystrophy, and antler abnormalities.

The list goes on across multiple states.

This is very complex, with full affects playing out over many years. Because of the time frame, and the multigenerational affects, pesticides had been over looked for many years.

It is not an "anti herbicide agenda" it is a pro-hunting agenda, with the inverse being true as well.
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the interesting articles. I read "SYMPTOMS AND CONSEQUENSES OF CONGENITAL FETAL HYPOTHYROIDISM IN MULE DEER (Odocoileus hemionus) POPULATIONS" and "CONGENITAL FETAL HYPOTHYROIDISM SYMPTOMS IN PRONGHORN ANTELOPE." The mule deer article only generally mentioned "some chemicals used for pesticides" and "environmental toxins. The pronghorn article specifically mentioned "glyphosate (or Roundup)," a herbicide, as a possible culprit in the birth defects. Glyphosate is among the most widely used herbicides on the market. You mention "Dimilin," an insecticide, which, in my mind, is more likely to affect animal organisms than are most common use herbicides. These articles sound authoritative but they still aren't sourced well as a scientific review would be. I would be interested to know what other herbicides/insecticides (by chemical or name brand) they believe are causing these defects. I'm convinced there are some birth defects occurring but just not convinced of the causes. As a fellow outdoorsman, I'm certainly not for harming non-target domestic or wild animals or humans for that matter through poisoning. You keep researching and I'll keep reading.
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I watched a fawn do exactly what that deer in the video was doing in my field. It was just going around in circles for probably 10 hours straight and the DWR had to come get it.
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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A quick note on Glyphosate, I'll be back later. Glyphosate is a chelator, meaning that it locks up and makes unavailable micro nutrients(metals) This is how it kills plants, it deprives them of these micro nutrients, which weakens them. The plants are then finished off by fungi, bacteria and other organisms. Glyphosate also happens to increase many "bad" fungi, and bacteria, while reducing "good" ones.

Glyphosate essentially induces auto immune deficiency(AIDS/HIV) in plants. The immune system of plants and animals operates on many of the same principles, with many of the same elements, copper, zinc, and magnesium to name a few. The big difference is that plants are a carbohydrate based system where as animals are a protein based system. Plants do not need selenium, but animals do. Ghlyphosate chelates selenium. Selenium, specifically selenoproteins are part of what make us different from plants, but animals have to get the selenium from plants. So mechanically the chelation of selenium is detrimental, and induced by the application of glyphosate.

Of more concern is that glyphostate is an endocrine disruptor, endocrine disruption can drive internal deficiencies of micro nutrients, while external enviromental chelation can exacerbate these deficiencies.

This: http://westernwildlifeecology.org/se...ystem-effects/ is peer edited by people that study pesticides and have PHDs. It is also well sourced.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Here is an article from gohunt.com http://www.gohunt.com/read/elk-hoof-...icials-worried In this article there is a link to well sourced information about Atrazine.

On a side note, they were not looking at antler deformities in WA and OR, in conjunction with hoof rot, two months ago. It was not until I predicted that they should be seeing other things in conjunction with the hoof rot, that the conection was made. There will be further developments as other things are looked at, and other connections are made. A review of elk pictures from that part of world, is showing that there are other things going on as well.

Different manifestations of this are occurring all over the West.
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnate View Post
Thanks for the interesting articles. I read "SYMPTOMS AND CONSEQUENSES OF CONGENITAL FETAL HYPOTHYROIDISM IN MULE DEER (Odocoileus hemionus) POPULATIONS" and "CONGENITAL FETAL HYPOTHYROIDISM SYMPTOMS IN PRONGHORN ANTELOPE." The mule deer article only generally mentioned "some chemicals used for pesticides" and "environmental toxins. The pronghorn article specifically mentioned "glyphosate (or Roundup)," a herbicide, as a possible culprit in the birth defects. Glyphosate is among the most widely used herbicides on the market. You mention "Dimilin," an insecticide, which, in my mind, is more likely to affect animal organisms than are most common use herbicides. These articles sound authoritative but they still aren't sourced well as a scientific review would be. I would be interested to know what other herbicides/insecticides (by chemical or name brand) they believe are causing these defects. I'm convinced there are some birth defects occurring but just not convinced of the causes. As a fellow outdoorsman, I'm certainly not for harming non-target domestic or wild animals or humans for that matter through poisoning. You keep researching and I'll keep reading.

Would you spray this stuff on your salad and then eat it? If you answered no you must not be to trusting that they are not harming animals. It is such common sense, spray poison on a plant and it is safe for animals to eat! Not my idea of critical thinking.
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's not just pesticides. It also fertilizers and weed killers.
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